One of the issues that arises in To the Lighthouse is marriage and its effects on the individual. In The Window, the characters reflect on the marriages of the past (Mr. and Mrs. Bankes and Mr. and Mrs. Carmichael), present (Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay), and future (Paul and Minta and possibly Lily and Mr. Bankes) in order to determine if marriage hinders/helps the individual. Based on all of the characters’ perspectives, determine to what extent marriage brings fulfillment in The Window. You may want to think about the following as you craft a response:
-the individual’s own thoughts about his/her past, present, or future marriage(s)
-the other characters’ reactions to the above marital relationship
-the problems which affect the above relationships and the couple’s ability to solve these problems
Be prepared to share your thoughts to each of the above in a student generated online public discussion. For any assertion you make, be ready to provide the necessary evidence and support that aid you in making your points clearly and persuasively. This online discussion will be evaluated on your close analysis of the text. In other words, your ability to present a quotation and then analyze the implications of this quotation fully will be assessed.
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Hey everyone this is Kevin Michaud. I don't know what my tag is b/c I am on my Mom's account.
I would like to talk about how the merrage can affect others. One great example is in the very beginning of the novel when James Ramsay has murderous thoughts toward his father because he contradicted what his mother had said. "Such were the extremes of emotion that Mr. Ramsay excited in his children's brests by his mere presence" (10; I forgot my book @ school this is the library book page). Typically when a couple contradicts what the other says they have stress in their relationships which could be the effect of merrage or just being arround eachother for too long. This stress obviously gets passed down to who ever lives with it and can be seen in James's reactions. So becasue of the difficulties in the merrage of Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay it will affect the one who live with them in a negative way.
I think that not only do the marriages affect people that they live with, which Kevin M mentioned, I also think it affects others around them. Not only does the marriage between Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay affect James, it also has an affect on Mr. Bankes. When Mr. Bankes was sitting with Lily, when they were watching Mr. Ramsay, he remembers a story about Mr. Ramsay; "[He] thoughout of Ramsay striding along a road by himself...But this was suddenly interrupted,...,by a hen, straddling her wings out in protection of a covey of little chicks...Bankes had thought it, which showed his simplicity, his sympathy with humble things;...After that, Ramsay had married" (20-21). During this point of the book, we begin to see a connection forming between Bankes and Lily. By Bankes remembering this story of how Ramsay found a spouse, it shows that he may be having similar thoughouts about himself and Lily. It also shows that due to the marriage of the Ramsays, it affects Bankes because it shows him that there really is true love and it is not too hard to find.
I agree with both Kevins in that a marriage can affect many people. Not only do marriages affect the people that they live with, but the people around them. Kevin R. mentioned that William Bankes and Lily Briscoe are affected by the marriage of Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay. William Bankes is affected by this marriage because through it he can see himself in Mr. Ramsay's own shoes allowing him to be more confident with himself. Lily is affected by this marriage by the fact that she sees how the relationship affects Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay's way of life. Throughout the time Lily lives in the Ramsay household she discovers her true belonging in life and is able to connect with other characters (Mr. Bankes) in the book instead of keeping only to herself: "[Mr. Bankes] you have greatness, Lily continued but Mr. Ramsay has none of it. He is petty, selfish, vain, egotistical; he is spoilt; he is tyrant; he wears Mrs. Ramsay to death" (24). As mentioned earlier William and Lily have developed a special connection as a result of the Ramsay marriage and through this marriage both find his or her own self. She sees how Mr. Ramsay treats Mrs. Ramsay so poorly and how Mrs. Ramsay responds to her husband’s actions. By watching this relationship Lily learns how to overcome her different anxieties by being affectionate to others (Bankes). Most importantly through this marriage she is able to dodge life's obstacles and find her true place in life and her many paintings of incomplete shapes is greatly affected by this understanding.
I agree with the Kevins and Meghan that Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay's marriage has an effect on others because it helps others (particularly their own 8 kids) to learn about marriage and all it entails. People learn through the problems that Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay face and how the problems effect their relationship. The narrator describes the relationship between Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay as "two different notes, one high, one low, struck together..." (39). When the narrator describes them this way one can infer that a problem in their relationship is the fact that they are opposites, their ideas are not similar. The rest of the paragraph goes on to explain their differences, like the fact that Mr. Ramsay is very important in the world and Mrs. Ramsay is not, she is just there because he depends on her. It does not appear that Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay are able to handle being so different because when the narrator speaks of the differences he says "...all this diminished the entire joy, the pure joy, of the two notes sounding together..."(39). The couple's inability to compromise on their differences shows others in the novel that an important trait in a spouse is similarity or the ability to appreciate your spouse's differences.
Going along with what everyone has said regarding Lily and Mr. Bankes, I believe that the Ramsays marriage has prompted Lily to be more open with Mr. Bankes. She sees the longevity and love of the marriage, and she looks forward to one day having her own. She is so inspired by the marriage that she is willing to show Mr. Bankes her painting: "[Lily] braced herself to stand the awful trial of some one looking at her picture...[Mr. Bankes] had shared with her something profoundly intimate. And thanking Mr. Ramsay for it and Mrs. Ramsay for it" (52-54). Lily attributes her ability to allow Mr. Bankes to view her painting to the Ramsays. They must have shown her that sharing things with one another, despite the difficulty, leads to a kind of satisfaction in the marriage. Lily wants to feel that as well, so she is able to put aside her fears and let Mr. Bankes critique her painting, something she does not let anyone else do.
Now that we have discussed the role the Ramsay marriage plays in different characters lives throughout the Window, I would like to discuss the affect the Carmichael’s relationship has had on other characters lives. This relationship resulted in a divorce and the Window shows the affects it has on Augustus Carmichael. Throughout his marriage Augustus depended on his wife for many things. He was always looking to his wife to validate his own sense of self worth. Eventually his wife had enough of his dependent behavior and kicked him out of the house, and as a result he had to become self reliant: “It was his wife’s doing. She remembered that iniquity of his wife’s towards him…. He had the tiresomeness of an old man with nothing in the world to do” (40). After the divorce Mr. Carmichael becomes a “lost soul” by not knowing how to provide/take care of himself, he is “unkempt.” This failed marriage affects the Ramsay family, especially Mrs. Ramsay who takes it upon herself to look after Mr. Carmichael. Mr. Carmichael constantly hurts Mrs. Ramsay by ignoring her caring presence and because of this she understands she can’t change the way others think/act.
I agree with what is being said about how Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey's marriage positvely affects Lily and Mr Bankes. I believe not only did Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey's marriage put pressure on them, but also how Mrs. Ramsey sees a connection between the two and greatly supports them being married. Mrs. Ramsey says, "Yes, it Must! What an admirable idea! They must marry!"(71). Mrs. Ramsey's outside influnce continues to pressure Lily and Bankes to find happiness together. Mrs. Ramsey sees how affectionate Lily and Mr. Bankes are to each other, and she feels they should be togther. Moving along with and agreeing with what Meghan said about Mr. and Mrs. Carmichael. I agree that Mr Carmichael is rude and hurtful to Mrs. Ramsey, who is trying to help him out. After Mrs. Ramsey asks Mr. Carmichael if he needs anything from the store, he is inconsiderate and does not answer her. The narrator writes, "Sunk as he was in a grey-green somnolence which embraced them all, without needs of words, in a vast and benevolent lethargy of well-wishing; all the house; all the world; all the people in it, for he had slipped into his glass at lunch a few drops of something"(10). Mr. Carmichael was in such a state of depression becauses of his divorce, that it affected everyone around him. Despite Mrs. Ramsey's kind efforts to help out Mr. Carmichael, he does not change and stays in his gloom mindset. The painful ending of his marriage leads to his quiet and alone nature as he suffers in silence from his great loss. Mrs. Ramsey perserveres and keeps trying to make Mr. Carmichael's life better. She says, "He should have been a great philosopher...but he had made an unfortunate marriage"(10). She belies he could have done great things in his life, but his depression leads to his downfall. She thinks that marriage ultimately led to Mr. Carmichael's downfall and hinders his success. She wants him to succeed which is why she continues to make a strong effort to help him out.
I agree with Ray that Mr. Carmichael was in such a state of depression after his divorce that it hindered his success. I think that he did not know how to deal with divorce, one of the problems marriage may cause, and that is what hindered his success. Mrs. Ramsay thinks, as she goes to talk to Mr. Carmichael "and always now (why, she could not guess, except that it came probably from that woman somehow) he shrank from her. He never told her anything" (41). Mr. Carmichael lets his divorce hinder his success because he does not talk to anyone about his feelings, therefore keeping them bottled up inside him and causing depression. If he talked to someone (such as Mrs. Ramsay) who is willing to listen, he might be able to get some of his feelings out and Mrs. Ramsay would be able to encourage him to have the successes he was heading for. Because he did not know how to deal with divorce, it lead to depression and his successes were hindered.
We have already discussed the effect that the Ramsey's marriage had on the people around them, but I wanted to touch on the effect that it had on the actual couple. Though Mrs. Ramsey gives different perspectives on her marriage, it ends up giving her great happiness and fulfillment. At the end of The Window, Mrs. Ramsey senses her husband's need for her to express her love: "And as she looked at him she began to smile, for though she had not said a word, he knew, of course he knew, that she loved him" (124). This ability to intuit what Mr. Ramsey was feeling can only come from many years of marriage, and it results in Mrs. Ramsey thinking, "Nothing on earth can equal this happiness." Getting such joy out of her marriage and the love in it proves that this bond gives her the most fulfillment the world can offer through happiness.
Going along with Will in talking about how marriage effected Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay themselves, I think that throughout the book there are instances where Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay want to go help eachother but do not because they know that it would only cause more problems. When the Ramsays were taking a walk they began talking about their children and how they have effected them. When Mr. Ramsay begins to realize that he may have had a better career without kids, he becomes sad. While Mrs. Ramsay wants to help him she no that it would only make things worse; "And looking up, she saw above the thin trees the first pulse of the full-throbbing star, and wanted to make her husband look at it;...But she stopped herself" (71). Mrs. Ramsay knew that if she had him look up at the star it would only have him more sad because it may remind him of something from his past. Mr. Ramsay does a similar action when Mrs. Ramsay is upset because of the thought of her children; "He would let her bem and he passed her without a word, though it hurt him..." (65). By Mr. Ramsay not talking to Mrs. Ramsay about the troubles she is facing because he wants to help her it shows that he really does care for her. Since both Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay are able to realize that even in a time of sadness they must leave the other alone, it shows what effect marriage has. Since they know eachother so well because they have been married they realize that going to help the other may cause more sadness and the best thing to do is just let them sit and be alone.
Going along with what Will said, I believe Mrs. Ramsay has a special connection with her husband. At one point, she is thinking about marriage and all that it needs to survive. One point she makes is that "marriage needed...she need not name it-that was essential; the thing she had with ther husband" (60). She feels such a strong connection to Mr. Ramsay that she does not even have words to describe it. Her marriage is solidly based on an intangible connection, which allows her to be completely satisfied and happy in it. I also agree with Kevin R.'s comment on the Ramsays trying to help one another. The Ramsays try to avoid hurting one another by breaking into personal moments. As the couple was walking, Mr. Ramsay tried to explain to Mrs. Ramsay the way he felt about Andrew, but "he became uncomfortable, as if he were breaking into that solitude, that aloofness, that remoteness of hers" (67). They want so much to be open with one another, but also don't want to intrude upon each other's private thoughts. It also shows deep understanding of one another to be able to anticipate how one's words will affect the other. I feel that this furthers the marriage rather than hindering because it demonstrates that deep connection between the two.
I disagree with Christi. I think that the Ramsay’s inability to communicate hinders their marriage. One of the times that Mr. Ramsay interrupts her reading James a story, they say, “They both felt uncomfortable…No, they could not share that; they could not say that” (68). Your spouse is supposed to be your best friend, the person that you can tell anything too. If they can’t talk about day to day activities without feeling awkward, then they most likely can’t communicate about more important issues either, such as needing to replace the greenhouse roof. This inability to communicate not only causes them to feel separated, but also causes them to grow farther apart. “If he could not share her thoughts, Mr. Ramsey said to himself, he would be off then, on his own” (68). A person can never truly know another person, because they don’t know what is going on in their mind. They might perceive things differently, causing a difference in opinion and a possible argument. Since he can’t talk to his own wife, Mr. Ramsay has to find someone else to express himself to, and that weakens his relationship with his wife.
I disagree with Melissa because I think that the reason that the Ramsey's do not communicate with one another is because of the time period. In this culture, the genders are heavily separated, which Mr. Tansley proves at the dinner party: "He was not going to be condescended to by these silly women... They did nothing but talk, talk, talk, eat, eat eat. It was the women's fault" (85). By complaining about the women's talking, he is demonstrating that this type of communication is detrimental to a male-female relationship in that culture. By this standard, the Ramsey's seem to have a healthy relationship in which they do not talk about subjects that will anger or sadden the other one. In this respect, I agree with Kevin and Christy. In order to have a more stable marriage, the Ramsays must avoid some subjects. For example, Mrs. Ramsey must constantly remind her husband of his genius to protect him from depression: "If he put implicit faith in her, nothing would hurt him; however deep he buried himself or climbed high, not for a second should he find himself without her" (38). By giving Mr. Ramsey this sympathy, Mrs. Ramsey is fulfilling her marital duties. However, to scold him for this dependence would "hurt him" and surely break the bond they have as a married couple. As a result of the time period, Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey are forced to contain their communication, and consequently their marriage is stronger and more fulfilling.
I wanted to focus the discussion on the way that marriage helps an individual. More specifically how marriage helps Mr. Ramsay to see his wife in a more positive light.
Mr. Ramsay is utterly against the idea that the family will be able to go tho the lighthouse. He continues to think that his say is absolute when Mrs. Ramsay comments on how the weather can change, thus allowing them to see the lighthouse. Mr. Ramsay takes this personally and he continues to think that all women are intellectually handicapped. In his rage, he explains that "[Mrs. Ramsay] made his children hope what was utterly out of the question, in effect, told lies"(31). This is the problem that he constantly sees in all women, especially his wife. Then, later he sees his wife and James together in the window and thinks, "...without his distinguishing either his son or his wife, the sight of them fortified him and satisfied him and consecrated his effort to arrive at a perfectly clear understanding of the problem which now engaged the energies of his splendid mind"(33). The reason why Mr. Ramsay sees his wife in a more positive light, ultimately reflects on his ability to accept the feelings he has for his wife that he does not show. This is seen more in the way that Mr Ramsay immediately dismisses his quelms about Mrs. Ramsay's comment when he sees her with James in the window.
I believe the marital relationship between Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey shows that a relationship can hinder an individual. In Chapter 11, Mrs. Ramsey considers life without Mr. Ramsey, how it would be different and how it would change. She knows that they fight a lot and that his anger and temper causes them to be seperate, and it also causes stress in their lives. I think that their relationship has a negative impact on Mrs. Ramsey, for instance, "She could be herself, by herself. And that was what now she often felt the need of-to think; well not even to think. To be silent; to be alone." (72). Mrs. Ramsey does not feel the same way as she did when she was alone. She doesn't feel like she can have her own thoughts and feelings or be able to express herself, which is why the realtionship between them has a negative affect on her.
I kind of agree with what Emily had said earlier about the problems that Mr. and Mrs. Ramsay faced. Though, I think that Mrs. Ramsay felt that marriage was setback and a hassle for her.In the beginning of the book Mrs. Ramsay states that she hoped her daughters could, " sport with infidel ideas which they brewed for themselves of a life different from hers; in Paris,perhaps; a wilder life; not always taking care of some man or other(6)." When she states that she wants her daughters to have a different life than her and hopes that they are not taking care of a man, it seems like she is bitter about being tied down to a relationship and still feels like she hasn't accomplished what she wanted to accomplish. It also seems that Mrs. Ramsay wants her daughters to learn from her mistake of getting married and not being able to fulfill her dreams. She also uses her perspective to explain why other characters are not able to live up to their potential. Mrs. Ramsay tells Mr. Carmichael that he "should have been a philosopher ... but he had made an unfortunate marriage"(10). She believes that the reason why he wasn't as successful as she thinks he could have been is marriage. I think that Mr. Ramsay also has the same feeling as Mrs. Ramsay about marriage because he has to continuously remind himself that he has obligations and that he cannot keep dreaming. While he is thinking about the possibilities he has and the life he could be living stops his train of thought and thinks that, "he had no right. The father of eight children-he reminded himself"(69). Since he stopped his train of thought to remind himself that he had no right to think of other possibilities it seems like he, like Mrs. Ramsay, is also frustrated with this relationship because he isn't able to do what he wants. Since Mr. Ramsay feels like he cannot even dream, he takes it out on his kids and Mrs. Ramsay. Continuously, he disheartens James regarding the lighthouse and tells him it will be impossible to go. It seems like he's taking out his anger on his wife and his children. Mr. Ramsay states, " the infernal truth was, he made things worse for her. He was irritable-he was touchy. He had lost his temper over the lighthouse"(64). Mr. Ramsay recognizes the effect of his bitterness and sees the impact he has on his wife.
I disagree with Amanda's claim; instead I believe that marriage hinders the individual. I think a good example of this is seen in the relationship with Lily and Mr. Banks. Even though the two are not marriaged their relationship foreshadows how their marriage would hinder themselves. This is seen because Lily discusses how she can not share her painting with Mr. Banks. It says "She [Lily] could not show him what she wished to make of it...But it had been seen; it had been taken from her" (53). Here Lily discusses how she loves her paintings but can not show Mr. Banks. So she afraid to show him so she he can not approve of them. Therefore she hides a part of herself because she hides the paintings. Thus the relationship hinders a individuals personality. This ultimately shows how marriage is protrated as unfulliling.
Going against what Will and Kevin said,I believe Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey's marriage is hurtful to their potential. I believe they have negative thoughts on the marriage which brings forth pain and misery. Mrs. Ramsey believes that the marriage is hindering her husband's success and feels sorry for him. When talking to herh husband, she thinks, "For she guessed what he was thinking he--he would have written better books if he had not married"(69). Mrs. Ramsey feels their marriage hinders her husband's success. She feels that he could have written great books and done great things if he hadn't gotten married. This upsets her because she loves him and tries to make him happy. Mr. Ramsey, on the other hand, does not put much effort into the relationship. He just lives his lie in a monotonous way and passes away each day. When at the shop with his wife, he is asked what he thinks about flowers. "He did not look at the flowers, which his wife was considering, but at a spot about a foot or so above them...He would not bother her again about his books"(66). Mr. Ramsey was too caught up in his works to listen and enjoy life with his wife. He He does not want to put any effort into his relationship, he would rather continue his work and write books. Mr. Ramsey's lack of effort in his relationship draws him and his wife away from each other. He shows little care for her and more for his books. Mrs. Ramsey even believes their marriage hinders his writing potential. Even though others view their marriage as being healthy and perfect, there are many faults within it because of Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey's beliefs and attitudes.
I agree with Christina in that an individual is forced to submit personal views and actions when one is involved in a marriage. Mrs. Ramsay submits to what is expected of a woman in a marriage and she admits to giving into the expectations and she also claims that men as well submit to expectations while in a marriage. She states both expectations and submissions: "[T]he subjection of all wives-not that she blamed the girl, and the marriage had been happy enough, she believed- to their husbands labours, she made him feel better pleased with himself than he had done yet, and he would have liked, had they taken a cab, for example, to have paid for it" (11). Mrs. Ramsay states that a woman is to submit to praising her husband for any circumstance and a man is expected to take care of monetary things. Both people in a marriage live up to expectations and thus are giving up personal opinions and actions in order to give into marital expectations.
I do agree with Taylor and Christina that in marriages people have to make compromises, or 'submit.' I believe that this is natural and healthy. However I believe that the problem comes in when one person has a sense of superiority in the marriage, which results in an unbalance in the compromises. In the marriage, Mr. Ramsey clearly has the upper hand, this can be seen on page 39 when Mrs Ramsey thinks, "she did not like, even for a second, to feel finer than her husband; and further, could not bear not being entirely sure, when she spoke to him, of the truth of what she said...but it was their relation, and his coming to her like that , openly, so that anyone could see, that discomposed her; for then people said he depended on her, when they must know that of the two he was infinitely the more important"(39). This shows how Mrs. Ramsey is aware that Mr Ramsey has the upper hand in the marriage. All healthy marriages call for compromises, but when there is an unbalance in the compromise, the marriage cannot be beneficial to the individuals involved.
I agree with Eddie and i think that when someone has the upper hand in a relationship it hinders or hurts an individual and the relationship as a whole. From the evidence Eddie used, we see that Mrs. Ramsay "did not like, even for a second, to feel finer than her husband" (39). However, as the narrator continues, we see that although she doesn't like to feel better than him, there are certain things that bother her: "Not being able to tell him the truth...and then to hide small daily things, and the children seeing it and the burden it laid on them - all this diminished the entire joy, the pure joy, of the two notes sounding together, and let the sound die on her ear now with a dismal flatness" (39). Mrs. Ramsay understands that she does not have the upper hand in the marriage, and she does not like to feel better than Mr. Ramsay. On the other hand, she does not like hiding things from him, because the children see it and are burdened with it. After describing this, the narrator brings the marriage back to the music analogy, and we see that when someone has the upper hand in a marriage, there no longer is pure joy in the marriage.
I agree with Eddie that an unbalance in compromises hurts a marriage. I think that Mr. Ramsay’s not taking any responsibility for himself and relying completely on his wife is hurting their relationship. At night before going to sleep Mrs. Ramsay says, “Now she need not think about anybody. She could be herself, by herself… When life sank down for a moment, the range of experience seemed limitless” (62). All day long she has to be careful of what she says so that she doesn’t upset her children, her husband, or her guests. Mr. Ramsay doesn’t care about being rude, so his wife often then has to clean up after him. When she’s finally alone and doesn’t have to be diplomatic about everything she does, she thinks about all the things she could have done with her life. Since she is responsible for so many people, she can’t take advantage of all the opportunities in her life. She can only dream about them. Marriage limits what she is capable of accomplishing.
I agree with Eddie, Melissa, and Bridget in that one is hindered in a relationship when the other person has the upper hand. Mrs.Ramsay is thinking about her life and how it would be different without Mr.Ramsay (who seems to have the upper hand in the relationship). She feels that her life would be limitless and free and she is envious of such. She is by herself and "it was thus that she felt herself; and this self having shed its attachments was free for the strangest adventures. When life sank down for a moment, the range of experience seemed limitless" (62). Even when Mrs.Ramsay is by herself for a single moment she already feels free from "attachments" (meaning her husband) and thus she feels that her options in what can do with her life are limitless.
Going back to what both Kevins mentioned at the beginning of the blog, marriage does not only affect those involved in the relationship, both those who are surrounded by it. For example, James has strong feeling about his father in a negative way: "Had there been an axe handy, or a poker, any weapon that would have gashed a hole in his father's breast and killed him, there and then, James would have seized it" (4). From the beginning of the novel we see that James resents his father. This is because James has been surrounded by a marriage that is not succeeding.
I agree with what Melissa Whitney was saying about how a person is hinderend by an unbalance in the marriage. It seems like Mr. Ramsey can control Mrs. Ramsey and this affects their marriage in a negative way. This also causes stress in their lives and seperates themselves in their marriage, because they cannot get along and can't agree on anything. "He was irritable-he was touchy. He had lost his temper over the Lighthouse. He looked into the hedge, into its intricacy, its darkness." (75). The seperateness in the relationship between Mr. and Ramsey shows that stress in their lives can hinder an individual. Marriage puts a strain on Mrs. Ramsey's life and she isn't able to succeed to her fullest in life.
Going right back to what bridge said about how marriage affects more than just the 2 people involved. I completely agree with this statement. Also, she used the quote on page 4 about how James despises his father. Not only does the marriage cause james to hate on his father, i believe that it also causes him to have more appreciation towards his mom. On that same page, James thinks, "his wife, who was ten thousand time better in every way that he was" (4) James is obviously thinking ab out his mother and his father. This shows how james has a greater appreciation towards his mom
Mrs. Ramsay feels that she was limited by Mr. Ramsay, I too agree. Even though Mr. Ramsay may put up an action/barrierBut I also think that he uses his family and other people to help him deal with his own insecrurites This is seen when he is described, "Who shall blame him?...beauty of the world"(36). The way in which it says "beauty" it shows that Mr. Ramsay finds beauty in many things and most importantly his family. Thus his family is the main influence that helps him deal with his own insecurities.
I think Eddie's first comment was an intelligent an extra insightful one because he brought to light the fact that Mrs. Ramsay is submitting to Mr. Ramsay and that Mr. Ramsay clearly has the upper hand in their relationship. Mrs. Ramsay is in an almost unhealthy state of worship toward the Mr. and holds him in almost a sort of God-like state, fearing his reactions at certain things. "not being able to tell him the truth, being afraid, for instance, about the green house roof and the expense it would be, fifty pounds perhaps, to mend it; and then about his books, to be afraid that he might guess, what she a little suspected, that his last book was not quite his best book" (39). In order to have fulfillment in her life and marriage I think that Mrs. R needs to let go a little bit and leave Mr. R to himself. Mr. R is a very dependent character and constantly needs reassurance of others in order to properly function. I think that if Mrs. R could learn to gradually make Mr. R a less emotionally dependent and more free-spirited person their relationship would be helped out greatly.
I agree with DWags's comment that a relationship can hinder an individual, however I would like to refine it. I believe that a marital relationship can help a person so much that it ends up hindering them, because they develop a dependency upon that person that makes themselves a weaker person as an individual, as seen in Mr. Ramsay's case. Mr. Ramsay became so dependent upon Mrs. Ramsay's constant love and affection that it nearly drove him mad when she died. "Mr. Ramsay, stumbling along a passage one dark morning, stretched his arms out, but Mrs. Ramsay having died rather suddenly the night before, his arms, though stretched out, remained empty" (128). Although all humans experience grief and it can drive even the most sane a little bit mad, Mr. Ramsay's reaction is a bit unusual, outstretching his arms to something which is not even there. He is so conditioned to be used to the love and affection of Mrs. Ramsay that in her absence he becomes a complete wreck, thus proving that the fulfillment and joy that can result from marriage can come back to harm the individual.
I agree completely with what Melissa and Dylan said before, that an individual is hindered by an unbalanced marriage between them. This may be seen clearly in the opening scene when James is furious at his father for insisting that they won't be able to go to the lighthouse, "Such were the extremes of emotion that Mr. Ramsay excited in his children's breasts by his mere presense...not only with the pleasure of disillusioning his son and casting ridicule upon his wife, who was ten thousand times better in every way than he was" (6) This quote describes a common situation at the Ramsey household, with Mr. Ramsay constantly contradicting and undermining the ideas of his wife, who is obviously hindered by their marriage, unbalanced in Mr. Ramsay's favor.
I believe that marriage can hinder a relationship, because the husband and wife are unable to express themselves in fear of the other. This is seen in Chapter XI, when Mr. Ramsay passes by Mrs. Ramsay, but decides not to speak to her, "but he could not speak to her. But he resolved, no; he would not interrupt her. She was aloof from him now in her beauty, in her sadness. He would let her be, and he passed her without a word, though it hurt him that she should look so distant, and he could not reach her, he could do nothing to help her...For he wished, she knew, to protect her" (65). Mr. Ramsay is afraid to speak to her, because he causes her sadness and pain, but what he truly wants is to protect her and love her. Their marriage has caused them to become distant, from Mrs. Ramsay taking care of the kids, and Mr. Ramsay without her, gets locked up in his literature and looses sight of whats important. As a result, his actions cause her sadness, but he doesn't know how to confort her. This causes their relationship to be hindered.
I also believe that marriage brings some degree of fulfillment, but does not entirely satisfy either party in a marriage in The Window. This may first be seen when Mrs. Ramsey questions her behavior towards Minta and Paul, which has so far been to encourage them to marry, "And here she was, she reflected, feeling life rather sinister again, making Minta marry Paul Rayley;because whatever she might feel about her own transaction, she had experiences which need not happen to everyone" (60) By examining how she intially encourages the two to get married, one may see that Mrs. Ramsey feels at least partially satisfied by her own marriage. However, one may also see that her "experiences which need not happen to eveyone" allude to the bullying and insensitive nature of Mr. Ramsey, and thus suggest that her marriage did not bring her complete fulfillment.
I also found that marriage can be helpful, by bringing fulfillment to another's life. This is kind of like what Kevin R. was saying about marriage, that it affects those around it, but I am talking about it in a positive way. At the dinner table in chapter XVII, Mrs. Ramsay is thinking about Lily, and what she should do with her life. There was "something of her own which Mrs. Ramsay liked very much indeed, but no man would, she feared. Obviously, not, unless it were a much older man, like William Bankes...William must marry Lily. They have so many things in common" (Woolf 104). Mrs. Ramsay is finding fulfillment in herself, by setting up these marriages that counter the flaws of her own marriage. These supposed future marriages of Paul and Minta, and William and Lily, bring happiness to Mrs. Ramsay's life, because then she gets to see in real life, and experience in a way, what she doesn't have in her marriage. So, overall, marriage can help others.
Going back to what Andrew M. said in his first comment regarding the Ramsay's marriage and how they are hindered by their inability to act according to their desires because of the fear of being ridiculed by the other. I agree and I think that Mrs. Ramsay feels inferior to Mr. Ramsay in that way. She seems to repeatedly state that Mr. Ramsay is better and is always right. She states that " she was not good enough to tie his shoe strings, she felt"(32). By her stating that she feels unable to merely tie his shoe strings, her feelings show how Mrs. Ramsay truly feels about Mr. Ramsay's superiority in the relationship. The feeling of being inferior is mutual between Mr. Ramsay and Mrs. Ramsay because they both feel that the other is more successful. This feeling ends up leaving them dissatisfied with what they have achieved in their lives. Mrs. Ramsay questions herself, " What have i done with my life? thought Mrs. Ramsay, taking her place at the head of the table..."(82). The rupture of this statement shows at after reflecting all that she has done, she feels like she's still lacking in comparison to what she feels her husband has achieved.Towards the end of "the Window", Mrs. Ramsay shows that she feels as if she needs to submit to Mr. Ramsay in order to help their relationship because she feels like he's superior and is always right. She states, " That was what she wanted-the asperity in his voice reproving her. If he says it's wrong to be pessimistic probably it is wrong she thought; the marriage will turn out all right" (123). She submits to whatever he says because she feels like shes inferior and that he knows what's best and ultimately it will make their relationship stronger.Mr. Ramsay feels the same exact way when he is thinking about how he feels. "The truth was that he did not enjoy family life. It was this sort of state that one asked oneself, What does one life for?"(89). His dissatisfaction with his life is seen when he questions what other motivation he has to live. The feeling of being inferior and incomplete with life hinders communication between them and allows them to keep thinking they have achieved nothing after getting married, which ultimately shows that marriage is simply a setback in the characters' eyes.
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