Various objects become symbols of civilization vs. savagery.How do some of the objects in Part II function as symbols, and what does Marlow learn from them?
A major symbol that we disscussed in class was the fog and smoke that clouded the passage of the steamer along the river, especially during the native's attack on page 36-41. In class we thoroughly disscussed that it symbolized the colonizers' lack of understanding of the people they were attempting to "civilize" and the obscuring effect that the fear of the unknown creates. I just wanted to add that it also symbolized llike a cover or a shield, a facade. Literally the fog was what prevented the white's from hitting the natives. But it could also represent a cover for all of the underlying plans and conspiracies. So far I haven't found many examples of this theory but, like how the white people's plans to "civilize" the people but really trying to get rich by stealing the ivory. And then when Marlow finds out that "it was Kurtz who had ordered the attack to be made on the steamer. 'He hated sometimes the idea of being taken away--and then again...He thought it would scare you away--that you would give it up, thinking him dead" (58). The fog could be a physical manifestation of all the secrecy and conspiracies of the unknown around them.
Another major symbol of the story is how Marlow describes the boat being like a "sluggish beetle" on page 31. We didn't really talk much about steam boat but it is good to mention because it helps demonstrate the differences between the people and the savages and how they view each other. Marlow mentions of how the savages must think of this beetle and how it almost seems to be crawling toward Kurtz as it makes its way down the river. They view the white europeans on the boat as insignificant bugs and then go on to glorify Kurtz again because they worship him like a god. The boat represents how the savages truly believe that Kurtz is greater than all of them.
Just after Marlow and crew have talked to and been threatened by the cannibals he talks to his mates about his reasoning and logic of the cannibals' attack strategies. Marlow stated, "I had also judged the jungle of both banks impenetrable- and yet eyes were in it, eyes that had seen us" (39). Marlow obviously represents the civilized people and the "eyes" represent the savages. The fact that Marlow had already judged and was sure he was right about the impenetrable jungle, he realized he was wrong. Because he is white, and like other white men educated, this can symbolize the fact that civilized people think they are smarter and superior to the uncivilized. The cannibals, while uneducated, have found a way to hide from their white enemy and out smart them. They try things that the proper, intelligent, white men wouldn't even think of. However, Marlow learns the savage people may actually be smarter than him and his crew but in a different but equally as important way. For Marlow's society being book smart and making money as a result is what keeps up the white man's status high. But in a "savage" society this would not be very useful. Being life smart/street smart is what keeps them successfully alive.
Ok, so first of all (to ms O'Rourke) I'm sorry I didnt post until now. I had trouble logging in to to BlogSpot so I couldn't find the class's section.
I've seen that the book implies that civilizations are created by the setting of laws that encourage people to achieve higher standards. Civilizations act to prevent men from reverting back to their "darker" or uncivilized tendencies as represented by the natives. London itself, in the book a symbol of enlightenment, serving as the example for what the Europeans wan Africa to become.
However, while society seems to restrain these tendencies, it does not get rid of them. These tendencies will always in the background, never abolished.
The tendency to revert to savagery is seen in Kurtz. When Marlow meets Kurtz, he finds a man that has totally thrown off the restraints of civilization and has turned to a primitive state.
Here's our questions for you guys: 1. How do the symbols affect Marlow's understanding and impression of his surroundings in the Congo? 2. How do the symbols affect the impressions made by the "savages" as opposed to the white men? 3. Do these symbols perpetuate the stereotypes of civilization vs. savagery?
Michelle good idea/theory but seems to be stretching a little since lack of evidence. With evidence presented could be nice point about fog being facade.
Massood’s point is supposed to be about boat but argument makes boat seem to have little significance in the story. Hints at Kurtz being God like. Better idea to go off of. Kurtz symbol of powerful white European invaders.
Jessa might want to present symbol before launching into argument. Point very good, just reorganize.
Angel does not answer the question. No symbols, just summary with a little insight and no evidence.
To answer Mariah's first question about how the symbols affect Marlow's understanding and impression of his surroundings in the Congo, I believe it helps him see through many of the unknowns that surround the whole situation. Conrad uses the river as a metaphor for Marlow's journey into the "heart of darkness". The descriptions of the river, particularly its description as a snake, reveal its symbolic qualities. The river "resembl[es] an immense snake uncoiled" and "it fascinated [Marlow] as a snake would a bird." Not only is Marlow captivated by the river, representing as it does the jungle itself, but its association with a snake gives this "fascination of the abomination" its metaphorical characteristics. I think this furthers his curiosity to explore the unknown and uncharted. The same curiosity that he speaks of that he experienced as a child wanting to visit and fill the blank spaces of on the map. His awakened curiosity will aide him in understanding the Congo and all of its inhabitants.
I agree with Michelle when she says the symbols represented explain how Marlow sees through many of the unknowns that surround the whole situation when he is "exploring" the Congo. However, I still believe that the symbols perpetuate the stereotypes of civilization vs. savagery. The "civilized people" are trying to turn the "savages" into themselves- the superior people. This feeling of superiority ,and displaying actions such as being rude towards the inferior have always been a stereotype in this situation and similarly in whites vs. blacks. When Marlow meets the manager, he witnesses that the manager's 'boy'- who was an "overfed young Negro from the coast...[was allowed] to treat the white men, under his very eyes, with provoking insolence" (19). This symbol demonstrates how the "civilized people" are reflected through the people who learn to be like them. The negro boy is both rude to Marlow because for some reason eh thinks Marlow is inferior to him, and also has over indulged because his 'owner' being white has money.
8 comments:
A major symbol that we disscussed in class was the fog and smoke that clouded the passage of the steamer along the river, especially during the native's attack on page 36-41. In class we thoroughly disscussed that it symbolized the colonizers' lack of understanding of the people they were attempting to "civilize" and the obscuring effect that the fear of the unknown creates. I just wanted to add that it also symbolized llike a cover or a shield, a facade. Literally the fog was what prevented the white's from hitting the natives. But it could also represent a cover for all of the underlying plans and conspiracies. So far I haven't found many examples of this theory but, like how the white people's plans to "civilize" the people but really trying to get rich by stealing the ivory. And then when Marlow finds out that "it was Kurtz who had ordered the attack to be made on the steamer. 'He hated sometimes the idea of being taken away--and then again...He thought it would scare you away--that you would give it up, thinking him dead" (58). The fog could be a physical manifestation of all the secrecy and conspiracies of the unknown around them.
Another major symbol of the story is how Marlow describes the boat being like a "sluggish beetle" on page 31. We didn't really talk much about steam boat but it is good to mention because it helps demonstrate the differences between the people and the savages and how they view each other. Marlow mentions of how the savages must think of this beetle and how it almost seems to be crawling toward Kurtz as it makes its way down the river. They view the white europeans on the boat as insignificant bugs and then go on to glorify Kurtz again because they worship him like a god. The boat represents how the savages truly believe that Kurtz is greater than all of them.
Jessa says...
Just after Marlow and crew have talked to and been threatened by the cannibals he talks to his mates about his reasoning and logic of the cannibals' attack strategies. Marlow stated, "I had also judged the jungle of both banks impenetrable- and yet eyes were in it, eyes that had seen us" (39). Marlow obviously represents the civilized people and the "eyes" represent the savages. The fact that Marlow had already judged and was sure he was right about the impenetrable jungle, he realized he was wrong. Because he is white, and like other white men educated, this can symbolize the fact that civilized people think they are smarter and superior to the uncivilized. The cannibals, while uneducated, have found a way to hide from their white enemy and out smart them. They try things that the proper, intelligent, white men wouldn't even think of. However, Marlow learns the savage people may actually be smarter than him and his crew but in a different but equally as important way. For Marlow's society being book smart and making money as a result is what keeps up the white man's status high. But in a "savage" society this would not be very useful. Being life smart/street smart is what keeps them successfully alive.
Ok, so first of all (to ms O'Rourke) I'm sorry I didnt post until now. I had trouble logging in to to BlogSpot so I couldn't find the class's section.
I've seen that the book implies that civilizations are created by the setting of laws that encourage people to achieve higher standards. Civilizations act to prevent men from reverting back to their "darker" or uncivilized tendencies as represented by the natives. London itself, in the book a symbol of enlightenment, serving as the example for what the Europeans wan Africa to become.
However, while society seems to restrain these tendencies, it does not get rid of them. These tendencies will always in the background, never abolished.
The tendency to revert to savagery is seen in Kurtz. When Marlow meets Kurtz, he finds a man that has totally thrown off the restraints of civilization and has turned to a primitive state.
Here's our questions for you guys:
1. How do the symbols affect Marlow's understanding and impression of his surroundings in the Congo?
2. How do the symbols affect the impressions made by the "savages" as opposed to the white men?
3. Do these symbols perpetuate the stereotypes of civilization vs. savagery?
-the Post 1 group
Prompt 1 Input
Michelle good idea/theory but seems to be stretching a little since lack of evidence. With evidence presented could be nice point about fog being facade.
Massood’s point is supposed to be about boat but argument makes boat seem to have little significance in the story. Hints at Kurtz being God like. Better idea to go off of. Kurtz symbol of powerful white European invaders.
Jessa might want to present symbol before launching into argument. Point very good, just reorganize.
Angel does not answer the question. No symbols, just summary with a little insight and no evidence.
To answer Mariah's first question about how the symbols affect Marlow's understanding and impression of his surroundings in the Congo, I believe it helps him see through many of the unknowns that surround the whole situation. Conrad uses the river as a metaphor for Marlow's journey into the "heart of darkness". The descriptions of the river, particularly its description as a snake, reveal its symbolic qualities. The river "resembl[es] an immense snake uncoiled" and "it fascinated [Marlow] as a snake would a bird." Not only is Marlow captivated by the river, representing as it does the jungle itself, but its association with a snake gives this "fascination of the abomination" its metaphorical characteristics. I think this furthers his curiosity to explore the unknown and uncharted. The same curiosity that he speaks of that he experienced as a child wanting to visit and fill the blank spaces of on the map. His awakened curiosity will aide him in understanding the Congo and all of its inhabitants.
I agree with Michelle when she says the symbols represented explain how Marlow sees through many of the unknowns that surround the whole situation when he is "exploring" the Congo. However, I still believe that the symbols perpetuate the stereotypes of civilization vs. savagery. The "civilized people" are trying to turn the "savages" into themselves- the superior people. This feeling of superiority ,and displaying actions such as being rude towards the inferior have always been a stereotype in this situation and similarly in whites vs. blacks. When Marlow meets the manager, he witnesses that the manager's 'boy'- who was an "overfed young Negro from the coast...[was allowed] to treat the white men, under his very eyes, with provoking insolence" (19). This symbol demonstrates how the "civilized people" are reflected through the people who learn to be like them. The negro boy is both rude to Marlow because for some reason eh thinks Marlow is inferior to him, and also has over indulged because his 'owner' being white has money.
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