Examine the comparisons Marlow continues to make between the various peoples he encounters: European traders, cannibals, natives, etc. What is the significance of these comparisons? Why does he continue to make them?
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Throughout the novel "Heart of Darkness," by Joseph Conrad, Marlow is faced with many new adventures. In facing these new adventures he encounters many different beings of which he has a distinct description for each:
"[The savages] were not enemies, they were not criminals, nothing but black shadows of disease" (14).
“He was amazing and had a penholder behind his ear. I shook hands with this miracle and I learned he was the company’s chief accountant” (15).
From his first experiences with the savages/cannibals Marlow classifies them as less of worth, nothing but a “black disease” filling up space. He has no respect for these savages but all respect for civilized men of whom he calls “miracles.” Marlow keeps emphasis on the differences in these two social classes because he wants to make it known that civilized men are more of worth than savages. It is also clear that Marlow himself does not want his audience to classify him as one of the savages, but as an important man. From Marlow’s constant descriptions of the savages and civilized men (European traders) do you think the two social classes would be able to coexist without conflict?
I agree with Meghan that in the beginning of the book Marlow classifies the "savages" as "diseased" and the company people as "miraculous".
While Marlow's group was travelling, they heard music and Marlow said about the sound, "perhaps with as profound meaning as the sound of bells in a Cristian community"(17). This shows that the time that he's spent in the jungle has opened his mind to allow him to concider other labels than savages.
On the same page a man tells marlow that he came "to make money, of course... he said scornfully"(17). Marlow was annoyed by this man's motives an habits, and begins to question the point of what they're trying to acheive.
I think that this demonstrates his change of opinion, once he learns more about what's happening.
I agree with Meghan and Melissa in that I also think that he constantly compares people to establish who is "savage" and who is "civilized", however I feel that it is a reaction to thing he doesn't know. I feel that who is considered "savage" is just the unknown.
Marlow's fear of the unknown is demonstrated by his reaction to being awoken by yelling from the prisoners of the island. His immediate thought is if they will be attacked or killed due to the thick fog surrounding them in the night (35-36). Marlow is immediately threatened by the unknown therefore demonstrating his fear and bias for unknown things or people.
It is clear that once something is known to Marlow he does not fear it or consider it savage. Marlow percieves the cannibals as savage however once he comes to understand them he does not fear nor think of them as uncivilized. Marlow takes notice of their side of things and their intentions and considers them in a new light. Marlow overhears the cannibals talking about who they are going to eat and he states, "I would have been properly horrified had it not occurred to me that he and his chaps must be very hungry" (36). Marlow no longer looks down upon them as much because he has come to understand them more.
Marlows comparisons distinguish who is percieved as civilized and who is not yet both are detwermined by Marlow's knowledge/ understanding of that person.
In answer to Megahan's question, I think it is possible for the two social classes to coexist together. For example, when they are caught in the fog on the way to Mr. Kurtz, Marlow is faced with malnourished cannibals who are able to restrain themselves from eating the people aboard the ship. As Marlow is describing the scene with the cannibals he says, "But there was the fact facing me-the fact dazzling, to be seen, like the foam on the depths of the sea, like a ripple on an unfathomable enigm, a mystery" (38). Marlow seems to be surprised by the "mystery" of the cannibals who seem to "dazzle" him. They go about the ship doing they're work eating what they can get, while the pilgrims and white men are blood-thirsty. He sees his helmsman "Shaking the empty rifle and yelling at the shore" (41). This is ironic considering Marlow expected the cannibals to be the savages while in fact he gains repsect for them when they are most vulnerable to savage behaviors. His helmsman is acting inhuman in this situation while shaking his rifle and yelling at the natives, showing that Marlow can infact coexist with those who he considers to be a lower class: the cannibals.
I agree with what Melissa and Taylor were saying about how there is a distinct classification that Marlow makes in the book of "Heart of Darkness". Marlow makes various distinctions between civilized beings and savages.
I think that Marlow classifies the Cannibals as civilized, because they are able to restrain themselves from becoming very dangerous. Marlow says, "They had not the fierce character boding of immediate hostile intention. Unexpected, wild, and violent as they had been, they had given me an irresistible impression of sorrow." (39). Marlow respects the cannibals and considers them "civilized", because they are able to restrain themselves, and are able to fight their hunger with control.
Marlow classifies the pilgrims as savages, because he thinks they are greedy and disrespectful. "The only real feeling was a desire to get appointed to a trading post, where ivory was to be had, so that they could earn percentages." (21). Marlow doesn't think that the pilgrims are good people, because all they care about are themselves and trading resources. The pilgrims don't have any respect for the natives or anyone else, which is why they're classified as savages.
I agree with Bridgets comment on how two social classes can exist. It is seen throughout the whole novel, thus far, that Marlow encounters many different people consisting of all different statues'. During his many encounters it describes how they may be conflict or disagreement between the two groups of people but, they always seem to coexist with oneanother, whether they are both equal or not.
Marlow is very aware of this differnce between social classes. But I feel that for as much as aware he of this he is just as much confused. I believe he is confused on why two very difffernt groups of people can coexist. Marlow exibits this state of confusion as he describes he trip with the Cannibals and states, "Why in the name of all the gnawing devils of hunger they didnt go for us--there were thrity to five--" (37). From Marlow's word choice of "why" is can be seen that Marlow still does not have answer for his statement, Thus meaning that he does not understand why his crew and the cannibals were able to coexist. He knows that that it happened and can happen. But he still does not have answer to why they can. Therefore he is confused on how two very different social groups can coexist.
The group determined that Marlow's original perception of civilization and savagery changes as he is exposed to the savage culture. They decided that the two societies could coexist, for reasons still unknown, but they were undecided on the roles of the two sides. One idea was that the roles were reversed and another was that savagery is simply the unknown.
Why are these two societies able to coexist, like on the steamboat? What characteristics of the societies allow them to remain peaceful?
How does the unknown contribute to the label of "savage" and Marlow's understanding of this term?
i agree with everyone to an extent. I believe that while two extremely different societies can exist, the merging of these different classes is unequal. I am referring to the differences between the natives and marlow and his people. The way that Marlow's society view the natives is degrading and rude. In order to demonstrate the distinct differences in their lives, Marlow and his friends dehumanize the natives by the way the refer to them as "one of these creatures rose to his hands and knees...nothing but black shadows of disease"(14). It is obvious that by the way they refer to the natives as "creatures" and "shadows" that there is no respect flowing in the relationship of these different societies. The degradation that is illustrated by these different examples demoinstrates the way that two different societies cannot coexist equally.
To answer Will’s questions I think Marlow and his men are able to coexist with the savages because they both found ways to work/live together. In other words without one, the other would have difficulty surviving: “Fine fellows – cannibals in their place. They were men one could work with, and I [Marlow] am grateful to them” (31). I also think that Marlow and his men already thought of themselves as the savages “superiors,” and in believing this, they took the control over the savages for their own survival. What it comes down to is that the savages are already “lost” souls, and they would do anything (work for/with Marlow and his men). This is their peaceful agreement and all are able to live with each other; no force was involved, it was just how this relationship was meant to be. Finally, I think the unknown contributes to the label of a “savage” because of the cannibals’ actions and how they compare to the civilized men. I also think that the environment that one grows up in or is surrounded by affects how an individual goes about his or her life.
I agree with Meghan that the environment determines what is considered savage. Marlow says about Kurtz’s seeming insanity: “the heavy, mute spell of the wilderness…beguiled his unlawful soul beyond the bounds of permitted aspirations” (61). Marlow is referring to the fact that their society limits what is allowed. He feels that Kurtz’s time and experiences in the forest have changed the way he looks at life. He no longer sees the point of the conventions of his own society. The two societies are able to coexist peacefully when there are people such as Kurtz and Marlow who are willing to look beyond their own society’s rules in an attempt to understand the other’s.
I agree with Meghan in that they are able to coexist because they work for/with each other. I feel that the cannibals working for Marlow and his crew demonstrates the coexistance between savage and civilized. The cannibals are no longer feared because they are doing work for Marlow, therefore it is clear work exchange is the way the savage and civilized coexist. However, I also feel that this demonstrates the idea that savage is civilized, and civilized is savage. Conrad uses a symbol for people such as Marlow (looking to make money wherever possible) through cannibals. Cannibals are thought to be savage people yet in the book they are the ones doing work and making money. Because "civilized" is seen as making money, the savages are now portrayed as being the civilized ones and civilized characters, such as Marlow or Kurtz, are seen to be more savage.
I also agree that they are able to coexist together because they work with/for each other, but respect also plays a key role in the relationship bewteen the savages and the civilized. Marlow is able to coexist with the cannibals on the ship becuase they have respect for each other. This is seen when Marlow is faced with the malnourished cannibals. He realizes that they could potentially be dangerous at such a desperate time. When they do not attack him, he gains respect for them saying, "It takes all his inborn strength to fight hungar properly" (38). The cannibals did not attack and Marlow realizes this took "inborn strength". This earns them respect because although they were starving, they did not harm those around them. This shows that the respect they have between each other is the reason they are able to coexist in society
I agree with Bridget because the factor of respect plays an important role in the relationship between the men. In order to coexist with each other the men must be able to trust one another. This trust is crucial because both peoples are living out of their comfort zone. By this I mean that they are in the same situation far from home. "It was very curious to see the contrast of expressions of the white men and of the black fellows of our crew, who were as much strangers to that part of the river as we, though their homes were only eight hundred miles away" (Conrad 36). The distance that stands between the different peoples and their homes represents the fear they both have of the unknown. Now that they are both "strangers" to their location it is obvious that the fear of the unknown forces them to coexist and trust one another.
Going along with Connor and Bridget I too believe that the main reason Marlow is personally able to coexist with the savages is becuase he finds respect for them. BUt I dont think that just plain respect for the them is what causes Marlow to gain this new outlook. I also think that the idea that one can defy thier social sterotype can be cause a deeper reaction. In this cause Marlow feels a deeper feeling of respect for the cannibals. THis is seen when Marlow is observing them and statesb "with the curisosity of thier impules, motives, capacities, weakness, when brought to the teast of an inexorable physical necessity. Restraint! What possible restraint!" (37). Here It can be seen that marlow is shocked that the cannibals can abandon thier barbaric ways. This shock that marlow recieves translates into a respect since his life is not in jeppardy. This respect gained introduces and re-enforces that idea that two different social groups can exist in one common society.
I agree with what everyone is saying about the reason the two different societies are able to coexist with one another is having trust and respect for one another; whereas the pilgrims do not show respect. "...had it occurred to me that he and his chaps must be very hungry: that they must have been growing increasingly hungry for at least the past month." (36). Because the savages choose not to go after Marlow and his men, they do not fear the savages, but more importantly, they are able to trust the savages which helps the two societies co-exist. The pilgrims also do not show respect at all, so it also helps the two different societies exist together. "You should have seen the pilgrims stare! They had no heart to grin, or even to revile me..." (39). The pilgrims show no respect for the savages or anyone else, because they show that they are selfish throughout the entire novel. The savages show respect towards Marlow and his men, so this helps the two societies exist together and help each other.
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