Various objects become symbols of civilization vs. savagery.How do some of the objects in Part II function as symbols, and what does Marlow learn from them?
One of the symbols that Marlow came across was early on in Part II. While traveling up the river, Marlow states, "On the silvery sandbanks hippos and alligators sunned themselves side by side." (30) The hippos and alligators are very different animals. One is a predator, and the other is not. The fact that they are seen cooperating provides an insight into the developing plot of the story. Marlow begins to realize that his race and the savage race, which are represented by these animals, are not so different after all. Each race has the potential to coexist with the other, and Marlow sees that this could be a better solution to the growing chaos on the island.
I agree with what Brian said, there seems to be several symbols throughout part II that show that civilization and savagery may not be as different as we think of them to be. In the beginning of part two as Marlow continues to descibe his journey, I viewed the steamboat as a symbol of civilization and the trees as a symbol of savagery. "Tees, trees, millions of trees, massive, immense...and at their foot...crept the ittle begrimed steamboat...We penetrated deeper and deeper into the heart of darkness" (31). As the steamboat got deeper and deeper into the trees it was going further into the heart of darkness. Savagery was closing in around it and compared to all the bad that was going on, the ship's goodness seemed very small. At the same time however, Marlow describes his interaction with savages saying "We had enlisted some of these chaps on the way for a crew. Fine fellow - cannibals - in their place. They were men one could work with, and I am grateful to them" (31). These quotes connect with Brian's passage in that as the boat gets further into the midst of pure savagery the only way for both races to succeed may be to work together.
I do agree with Emily and Brian in the beginning but I do think Marlow changes his perspective again later in Part II. When first arriving to the land he notices that "the bush was swarming with human limbs in movement, glistening, of bronze color" (41). Here Marlow is considering these people as "human limbs" instead of humans which clearly shows that he feels superior to them. While he is noticing these people, at the same time he is being attacked by them. Arrows are coming toward him and he realizes that "They might have been poisoned, but they looked as though they wouldn't kill a cat" (41). Here, one can see that the arrows represent the people which are in the bushes(savagery). Marlow notices that the people will not hurt anyone because they are just like the arrows. This causes him to feel superior to these people and feel as though he can overtake them.
Brian and Emily make good points about civilization and savagry standing together, but i really want to go more into depth with Kevin's idea of Marlow changing his perspective at the end of part II. I think that the real change of perspective has to do with the smoke and the mist that clouds the river. Marlow is on the steamboat looking over the water,"I watched the fog for the signs of lifting as a cat watches a mouse"(39). Marlow is attempting to be the predator in this hunter/hunted relationship when he searches the water so intently. Marlow then has a realization about how maybe the savages are not so destrictive, not so bad. After a while the fog lifts and the savages attack the steamboat by surprise(39-40). In this situation, the fog represents the truth and not under estimating what you do not know(the savages). Marlow is so caught off guard by his ideas of the savages being humane that he underestimates how savage the "pilgrims" really are.
I also agree with Kevin's idea that Marlow regains a sense of superiority when describing the natives attacking his steamboat. Conrad again uses the attackers as symbols by having Marlow say, "I saw vague forms of men running bent double,leaping, gliding, distinct, incomplete, evanescent" (41). Marlow characterizes these natives, who he really knows little about, as "leaping and gliding", as though they were some sort of inhuman animal. He does so again by calling them "incomplete", which reveals that despite a growing sympathy toward the natives in light of the "civilized" men's behavior, he still coniders the people of the Congo symbols of savagery.
We believe that Brian brought up a good point about how the two animals provide insight into the developing plot of the story. It was interesting how he brought up the point about coexistent of savagery and cizilization but we thought it would be beneficial if the other bloggers continued to exppand on that thought. What is the purpose of the coexistence of savagery and civilization? How does this affect Marlow's perception of society and the future they will encounter?
I think one of the main purposes that Conrad is trying to convey to us as readers is that even though someone may feel inferior, just like Marlow at times feels superior to the other savages, in the end all humans are the same. When traveling on the steamboat Marlow and the others often see people on land. When seeing them at first, Marlow says, "They howled and leaped, and spun, and made horrid faces" (32). Here Marlow is comparing these people to animals. However when he continues his thought he says, "but what thrilled you was just the thought of their humanity-like yours-the thought of your remote kinship with this wild and passionate uproar" (32). His opinion suddenly changes and now he is noticing that those are people just like himself and that they really are not that different. By him thinking like this, it shows that savages and humans may actually be able to coexist in one society together. I think this then allows Marlow to actually take time to think about what lies ahead of him; "Joy, fear, sorrow, devotion, valor, rage-who can tell?-but truth-truth stripped of its cloak of time" (32). Marlow was mainly focused on achieving his goals on this trip but after realizing that he is not so different than the savages, it makes him take the time to think about what the future may bring to him. This allows Marlow to act in different ways and make different decisions.
I agree with Kevin about how the book stresses that civilized and savage people can coexist, but I think we need to make it more specific to the text. Marlow starts to realize the purpose and importance of coexistence. He says, "We are accustomed to look upon the shackled form of a conquered monster, but there...they were not inhuman." (32) When Marlow says "We", he is referring to society as a whole. He sees now that society is used to looking at savage people as inferiour and conquered, but Marlow sees how they are not necessarily different. With this realization, Marlow now sees that his society is wrong in thier judgements, and perhaps he will change his actions, for the better, due to thie realization.
I agree with Brian and Kevin, but I think that the reason Marlow begins to see that savages and civilization can work together is because as he is exposed to them more he becomes more understanding of their situations. Marlow is now out on his own and has to survive by himself with just his boat and the people around him, and he realizes this will not be easy. He faces many challenges. "It takes a man all his inborn strength to fight hunger properly. It's really easier to face bereavement, dishonor, and the perdition of one's soul...Restraint! I would just as soon have expected restraint from a hyena prowling amongst the corpses of a battlefield" (38). Marlow realizes how hard it is to live without food and therefore can better understand why the savages act the way they do - without any restraint. As he is exposed to situations like theirs, he realizes the savages are not much different than he is and can understand the reasons for their actions. Now he can make a valiant effort to work with them.
I would like to expand on kevin's idea of Marlow rapidly changing his perspective on the savages, and in that accepting the savages for people. Marlow is looking after the savage-turned-fireman. Marlow says, "to look at his was as adifying as seeing a dog in a parody of breeches and a feather hat, walking on his hind legs...he ought to have been clapping his hands and stomping his feet on the bank, instead of which he was hard at work...full of improving knowledge"(33). Marlow is confused with how the fireman is working instead of being on the bank. Marlow sees the other man as a "dog in a parody of breeches" yet later he talkes about how the fireman was "full of knowledge". Marlow keeps changing how he feels about the pilgrims and I think that is because he does not know what to make of them - he does not have hard proof that the savages are necessarily good or evil.
Expanding again on Kevin's earlier comment, I don't believe that Marlow so much changes his attitude in terms of feeling superior to the natives, but rather he begins to feel sympathy toward them in response to the behavior of the "civilized" Europeans that he travels with. I saw this mainly in the passage where Marlow describes how the natives are paid in brass wire that they cannot use at all, "So, unless they swallowed the wire itself...I could not see what good it would be to them". In describing this, I sensed that Marlow was at some level disgusted with the way that the company treated its native workers, a sentiment he has earlier in the book.
11 comments:
One of the symbols that Marlow came across was early on in Part II. While traveling up the river, Marlow states, "On the silvery sandbanks hippos and alligators sunned themselves side by side." (30) The hippos and alligators are very different animals. One is a predator, and the other is not. The fact that they are seen cooperating provides an insight into the developing plot of the story. Marlow begins to realize that his race and the savage race, which are represented by these animals, are not so different after all. Each race has the potential to coexist with the other, and Marlow sees that this could be a better solution to the growing chaos on the island.
I agree with what Brian said, there seems to be several symbols throughout part II that show that civilization and savagery may not be as different as we think of them to be. In the beginning of part two as Marlow continues to descibe his journey, I viewed the steamboat as a symbol of civilization and the trees as a symbol of savagery. "Tees, trees, millions of trees, massive, immense...and at their foot...crept the ittle begrimed steamboat...We penetrated deeper and deeper into the heart of darkness" (31). As the steamboat got deeper and deeper into the trees it was going further into the heart of darkness. Savagery was closing in around it and compared to all the bad that was going on, the ship's goodness seemed very small. At the same time however, Marlow describes his interaction with savages saying "We had enlisted some of these chaps on the way for a crew. Fine fellow - cannibals - in their place. They were men one could work with, and I am grateful to them" (31). These quotes connect with Brian's passage in that as the boat gets further into the midst of pure savagery the only way for both races to succeed may be to work together.
I do agree with Emily and Brian in the beginning but I do think Marlow changes his perspective again later in Part II. When first arriving to the land he notices that "the bush was swarming with human limbs in movement, glistening, of bronze color" (41). Here Marlow is considering these people as "human limbs" instead of humans which clearly shows that he feels superior to them. While he is noticing these people, at the same time he is being attacked by them. Arrows are coming toward him and he realizes that "They might have been poisoned, but they looked as though they wouldn't kill a cat" (41). Here, one can see that the arrows represent the people which are in the bushes(savagery). Marlow notices that the people will not hurt anyone because they are just like the arrows. This causes him to feel superior to these people and feel as though he can overtake them.
Brian and Emily make good points about civilization and savagry standing together, but i really want to go more into depth with Kevin's idea of Marlow changing his perspective at the end of part II. I think that the real change of perspective has to do with the smoke and the mist that clouds the river. Marlow is on the steamboat looking over the water,"I watched the fog for the signs of lifting as a cat watches a mouse"(39). Marlow is attempting to be the predator in this hunter/hunted relationship when he searches the water so intently. Marlow then has a realization about how maybe the savages are not so destrictive, not so bad. After a while the fog lifts and the savages attack the steamboat by surprise(39-40). In this situation, the fog represents the truth and not under estimating what you do not know(the savages). Marlow is so caught off guard by his ideas of the savages being humane that he underestimates how savage the "pilgrims" really are.
I also agree with Kevin's idea that Marlow regains a sense of superiority when describing the natives attacking his steamboat. Conrad again uses the attackers as symbols by having Marlow say, "I saw vague forms of men running bent double,leaping, gliding, distinct, incomplete, evanescent" (41). Marlow characterizes these natives, who he really knows little about, as "leaping and gliding", as though they were some sort of inhuman animal. He does so again by calling them "incomplete", which reveals that despite a growing sympathy toward the natives in light of the "civilized" men's behavior, he still coniders the people of the Congo symbols of savagery.
We believe that Brian brought up a good point about how the two animals provide insight into the developing plot of the story. It was interesting how he brought up the point about coexistent of savagery and cizilization but we thought it would be beneficial if the other bloggers continued to exppand on that thought. What is the purpose of the coexistence of savagery and civilization? How does this affect Marlow's perception of society and the future they will encounter?
I think one of the main purposes that Conrad is trying to convey to us as readers is that even though someone may feel inferior, just like Marlow at times feels superior to the other savages, in the end all humans are the same. When traveling on the steamboat Marlow and the others often see people on land. When seeing them at first, Marlow says, "They howled and leaped, and spun, and made horrid faces" (32). Here Marlow is comparing these people to animals. However when he continues his thought he says, "but what thrilled you was just the thought of their humanity-like yours-the thought of your remote kinship with this wild and passionate uproar" (32). His opinion suddenly changes and now he is noticing that those are people just like himself and that they really are not that different. By him thinking like this, it shows that savages and humans may actually be able to coexist in one society together. I think this then allows Marlow to actually take time to think about what lies ahead of him; "Joy, fear, sorrow, devotion, valor, rage-who can tell?-but truth-truth stripped of its cloak of time" (32). Marlow was mainly focused on achieving his goals on this trip but after realizing that he is not so different than the savages, it makes him take the time to think about what the future may bring to him. This allows Marlow to act in different ways and make different decisions.
I agree with Kevin about how the book stresses that civilized and savage people can coexist, but I think we need to make it more specific to the text. Marlow starts to realize the purpose and importance of coexistence. He says, "We are accustomed to look upon the shackled form of a conquered monster, but there...they were not inhuman." (32) When Marlow says "We", he is referring to society as a whole. He sees now that society is used to looking at savage people as inferiour and conquered, but Marlow sees how they are not necessarily different. With this realization, Marlow now sees that his society is wrong in thier judgements, and perhaps he will change his actions, for the better, due to thie realization.
I agree with Brian and Kevin, but I think that the reason Marlow begins to see that savages and civilization can work together is because as he is exposed to them more he becomes more understanding of their situations. Marlow is now out on his own and has to survive by himself with just his boat and the people around him, and he realizes this will not be easy. He faces many challenges. "It takes a man all his inborn strength to fight hunger properly. It's really easier to face bereavement, dishonor, and the perdition of one's soul...Restraint! I would just as soon have expected restraint from a hyena prowling amongst the corpses of a battlefield" (38). Marlow realizes how hard it is to live without food and therefore can better understand why the savages act the way they do - without any restraint. As he is exposed to situations like theirs, he realizes the savages are not much different than he is and can understand the reasons for their actions. Now he can make a valiant effort to work with them.
I would like to expand on kevin's idea of Marlow rapidly changing his perspective on the savages, and in that accepting the savages for people. Marlow is looking after the savage-turned-fireman. Marlow says, "to look at his was as adifying as seeing a dog in a parody of breeches and a feather hat, walking on his hind legs...he ought to have been clapping his hands and stomping his feet on the bank, instead of which he was hard at work...full of improving knowledge"(33). Marlow is confused with how the fireman is working instead of being on the bank. Marlow sees the other man as a "dog in a parody of breeches" yet later he talkes about how the fireman was "full of knowledge". Marlow keeps changing how he feels about the pilgrims and I think that is because he does not know what to make of them - he does not have hard proof that the savages are necessarily good or evil.
Expanding again on Kevin's earlier comment, I don't believe that Marlow so much changes his attitude in terms of feeling superior to the natives, but rather he begins to feel sympathy toward them in response to the behavior of the "civilized" Europeans that he travels with. I saw this mainly in the passage where Marlow describes how the natives are paid in brass wire that they cannot use at all, "So, unless they swallowed the wire itself...I could not see what good it would be to them". In describing this, I sensed that Marlow was at some level disgusted with the way that the company treated its native workers, a sentiment he has earlier in the book.
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