Describe the “encounters” between Kurtz and Marlow in Part II.What do we learn about each character, as well as man’s nature, from these encounters?Why does Marlow admire Kurtz?Why is Kurtz powerful?
When Marlow believes Kurtz to be dead, he has feelings of regret for never meeting him and reflects upon Kurtz's impact upon himself. Marlow generalizes that "when [he] is gone you must fall back upon your own innate strength" (45). The last part of the quote reflects Marlow's weakness and insecurity. Subconciously, Marlow starts to rely on Kurtz as someone to compete with. Kurtz gives Marlow a reason to work hard and serves as a fascinating obession to "show up". With Kurtz gone, Marlow realizes that he must work hard on his own accord. Usually when someone is better at something than another person, the first person strives to work their hardest to eventually beat the second person. Marlow's insecurities reveal the truth that people are dependant on eachother, whether if they recognize it or not.
Although Kurtz and Marlow do not actually meet one another by book two, there is already a growing bond between the two men. I agree with Kelsey's statement that Marlow grows an obsession with Kurtz simply based on hearsay. He describes seeing "Kurtz for the first time" when he hears the story of him traveling almost all the way to the headquarters only to turn right back around "towards the depths of the wilderness, towards his empty desolate station" (28). I disagree with Kelsey's statment of Kurtz being a rival, but rather a mystery he can not leave unsolved. Marlow is fascinated with the strange, seemingly irrational behavior that Kurtz exhibits, and is intrigued as to his motives. A lot of Kurtz's power lies in his indefinite and unknown character. Marlow later describes "the approach to this Kurtz grubbing for ivory in the wretched bush as beset by as many dangers as though he had been an enchanted princess sleeping in a fabulous castle" (38). He, too, reveres Kurtz as some sort of myth or fairy tale when he uses the comparison between him and a princess guarded in a castle. The fact of the matter is that Kurtz does not have a tremendous amount of physical power or even mental power over anyone else. His true superiority comes from the illusion that is created in the rumors and the gossip that circulate among the islands. It is this build-up that convinces people that they should regard him as a higher being when really "he [is] little more than a voice" (43).
Here goes try number three...hopefully for the sake of my sanity it doesn't get deleted again...
Marlow looks on Kurtz much as you and I look on any book character. He has never ever met the man yet he begins to formulate opinions and ideas about Kurtz. "No restraint - just like Kurtz" (46). This quote refers to the helmsman who died during the attack. Marlow has never met Kurtz, but his assumptions about Kurtz's character allows him to compare Kurtz with the helmsman. Kurtz is like a character in a book to Marlow. He formulates these ideas of Kurtz wihout ever having met the man. This is an aspect of human nature; to make assumptions about a person without knowing them. Much like prejudice, whether it is good or bad. Marlow assumes that Kurtz is a sort of adventurer, philosopher, hero. He deeply admires Kurtz, or at least an image of Kurtz that he has developed in his psyche. He believes that Kurtz's power is based in his ability to inspire men with words, but Marlow is in for a shock when he finally meets Kurtz.
Unlike everyone else, I am a little skeptical of Kurtz because of all the adoration and power that has been given to him. Based on the perceptions and relations between Marlow and Kurtz it is apparent that each character represents a characteristic of human nature. Kurtz is difficult to analyze because thus far, Marlow has not encountered him. However, based on the wealth he has achieved from ivory and Kurtz's status among the natives, it is possible that Kurtz represents humanity's evil. Kurtz demonstrates utter brutality as he publishes “exterminate all the brutes” (46) while ironically the natives nearly worship him. Although Kurtz’s message and motives are obviously immoral, they have such appeal because of his power and his “gift of expression, the bewildering, the illuminating, the most exalted and the most contemptible, … the deceitful flow from the heart of an impenetrable darkness” (43). All the characters will do anything that Kurtz wills because of his persuasiveness despite the fact that his plan might origionate from a "heart of impenetrable darkness" This appeal and blind adoration of Kurtz to me seems more sinister than fairy-tale like. Also, Kurtz is not encountered or described blatantly, this lack of understanding because of the multiple accounts of Kurtz may be interpreted as deseption. Overall, I agree with everyone that Kurtz is idolized; however, this power is used toward evil purposes.
I agree along with both Kelsey and Rachel in that Marlow's encounter with Kurtz causes Marlow to obsess over Kurtz over what he hears from others. However, Marlow's obsession can also be read as an intermediary between the two extremes of Kurtz and the Company. Kurtz is the chief of the Inner Station and the object of Marlow's quest. Kurtz is a man of many talents, as we learn, among other things, that he is a gifted musician and a fine painter; the chief of which are his charisma and his ability to lead men. "All Europe contributed to the making of Kurtz, and by and by I learned that most appropriately the International Society for the Suppression of Savage Customs had entrusted him with the making of a report for its future guidance." (p.49) Kurtz is a man who understands the power of words, and his writings are marked by an eloquence that obscures their horrifying message. Although he remains an enigma even to Marlow, Kurtz clearly exerts a powerful influence on the people in his life, which explains Marlow's fascination with Kurtz.
I agree with the previous claim that marlow is obsessed with Kurtz, or the idea of Kurtz, however i believe this obsession is caused by curiosity. Many people talk of this man and how amazing he his and they create an image in marlow's head. When he first hears of him he is instantly intrigued, "Mr. Kurtz was"..."a first class agent"..."Sends in as much ivory as all the others put together..." (16) because kurtz is so good at his job he is powerful, and this also makes marlow admire kurtz. These encouters display that men are selfish; "He, don't you see, had been planning to be assistant manager by and by under the present man, and i could see that the coming of that kurtz had upset them both not a little" (23). this man wants to be higher up and he wants Kurtz to be sick so that he can get a better job. In what other parts of the book is this quality displayed?
This blog discussed the relationship between Marlow and Kurtz. The contributors discussed the power that Kurtz has over the canibals and its positive and negative effects of it. They also discussed how Marlow cannot seem to make up his mind on how he feels about Kurtz and whether or not he admires him or is disgusted by him. According to the contributors, Marlow becomes obsessed with Kurtz based on many reasons including competition and unsolved mystery and in a snese curiosity.
do the asumptions that Marlow makes about Kurtz provide insight to his own chracter?
In response to masood's second question, the assumptions that marlow makes about kurtz displays Kurtz's enfatuation with the unknown. This characteristic shapes most of Marlow's life. This can be seen when Marlow is describing Kurtz's writing, "From that point he soared and took me with him. The peroration was magnificent, though difficult to remember, you know. it gave me the notion of an exotic Immensity ruled by an august Benevolence. It made me tingle with enthusiasm" (45-46). Marlow gets very excited about Kurtz's writing of savages and whites because he does not know much on the subject, and he is obsessed with Kurtz, this unknown charcter, and the unknown altogether, (savages).
I agree with Alli that both Kurtz and Marlow are enthralled with the idea of new discovery. However, I think what Masood might have been getting at was how Marlow's assumptions of Kurtz reflect his own personality. What I gathered from the reading was that Marlow's pre-formed opinions of Kurtz indicate an overwhelming skepticism in Marlow's character. Although the popular belief among the islands is that Kurtz is a "supernatural being" or "a deity", Marlow doesn't buy it (45). He, against all evidence, still believes that Kurtz isn't all that he is cracked up to be. In fact Marlow describes him as "lack[ing] restraint in gratification of his various lusts" and "that there [is] something wanting in him-some small matter which, when the pressing need arose, could not be found under his magnificent eloquence" (53). Marlow tries to find flaws in a man he has never met because he thinks it is impossible for a human to be idol like. It pains him to listen to everyone swoon over Kurtz and his superiority to others. That is why he focuses on his "lustful" nature and is facade of "magnificent eloquence". He doesn't believe that a human being could be so perfect and well revered by others, so he attempts to disprove it.
This skepticism on Marlow's part may be seen as rivalry by some, as Masood said. However I think it has less to do with jealousy of Kurtz than it does with disbelief. Marlow doesn't want to be a God to the natives, he just wants to find the peace in knowing that Kurtz is not one either. He attempts to humanize him, because he is a realistic guy. He doesn't believe in the far fetched stories. And although Marlow admits that he "was seduced into something like admiration- like envy" for Kurtz I think he quickly realizes the error of his ways (50). Later on he judges Kurtz harshly and again tries to bring him down to his level. Marlow is looking for the truth and he doesn't think that Kurtz the god of ivory is true.
I like what Rachel was saying about Marlow trying to make others see Kurtz as a human and not a God to idolize. However, because of his attempts to humanize Kurtz, it forms a one-sided rivalry between the two men. When Marlow speaks with the manager about Kurtz he asks, "Don't you talk with Mr. Kurtz?" and the manager replies with, "You don't talk with that man--you listen to him" (49). This represents the undying awe that everyone, except Marlow, has with Kurtz. Marlow's question defines his confusion and aggrivation as to why Kurtz is so highly respected, which is why he subconciously forms a rivalry with this man. Marlow's fascination with Kurtz comes not from admiration of the unknown, but rather, the desire to unveil Kurtz's flaws.
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When Marlow believes Kurtz to be dead, he has feelings of regret for never meeting him and reflects upon Kurtz's impact upon himself. Marlow generalizes that "when [he] is gone you must fall back upon your own innate strength" (45). The last part of the quote reflects Marlow's weakness and insecurity. Subconciously, Marlow starts to rely on Kurtz as someone to compete with. Kurtz gives Marlow a reason to work hard and serves as a fascinating obession to "show up". With Kurtz gone, Marlow realizes that he must work hard on his own accord. Usually when someone is better at something than another person, the first person strives to work their hardest to eventually beat the second person. Marlow's insecurities reveal the truth that people are dependant on eachother, whether if they recognize it or not.
Although Kurtz and Marlow do not actually meet one another by book two, there is already a growing bond between the two men. I agree with Kelsey's statement that Marlow grows an obsession with Kurtz simply based on hearsay. He describes seeing "Kurtz for the first time" when he hears the story of him traveling almost all the way to the headquarters only to turn right back around "towards the depths of the wilderness, towards his empty desolate station" (28). I disagree with Kelsey's statment of Kurtz being a rival, but rather a mystery he can not leave unsolved. Marlow is fascinated with the strange, seemingly irrational behavior that Kurtz exhibits, and is intrigued as to his motives. A lot of Kurtz's power lies in his indefinite and unknown character. Marlow later describes "the approach to this Kurtz grubbing for ivory in the wretched bush as beset by as many dangers as though he had been an enchanted princess sleeping in a fabulous castle" (38). He, too, reveres Kurtz as some sort of myth or fairy tale when he uses the comparison between him and a princess guarded in a castle. The fact of the matter is that Kurtz does not have a tremendous amount of physical power or even mental power over anyone else. His true superiority comes from the illusion that is created in the rumors and the gossip that circulate among the islands. It is this build-up that convinces people that they should regard him as a higher being when really "he [is] little more than a voice" (43).
Here goes try number three...hopefully for the sake of my sanity it doesn't get deleted again...
Marlow looks on Kurtz much as you and I look on any book character. He has never ever met the man yet he begins to formulate opinions and ideas about Kurtz. "No restraint - just like Kurtz" (46). This quote refers to the helmsman who died during the attack. Marlow has never met Kurtz, but his assumptions about Kurtz's character allows him to compare Kurtz with the helmsman. Kurtz is like a character in a book to Marlow. He formulates these ideas of Kurtz wihout ever having met the man. This is an aspect of human nature; to make assumptions about a person without knowing them. Much like prejudice, whether it is good or bad. Marlow assumes that Kurtz is a sort of adventurer, philosopher, hero. He deeply admires Kurtz, or at least an image of Kurtz that he has developed in his psyche. He believes that Kurtz's power is based in his ability to inspire men with words, but Marlow is in for a shock when he finally meets Kurtz.
Unlike everyone else, I am a little skeptical of Kurtz because of all the adoration and power that has been given to him. Based on the perceptions and relations between Marlow and Kurtz it is apparent that each character represents a characteristic of human nature. Kurtz is difficult to analyze because thus far, Marlow has not encountered him. However, based on the wealth he has achieved from ivory and Kurtz's status among the natives, it is possible that Kurtz represents humanity's evil. Kurtz demonstrates utter brutality as he publishes “exterminate all the brutes” (46) while ironically the natives nearly worship him. Although Kurtz’s message and motives are obviously immoral, they have such appeal because of his power and his “gift of expression, the bewildering, the illuminating, the most exalted and the most contemptible, … the deceitful flow from the heart of an impenetrable darkness” (43). All the characters will do anything that Kurtz wills because of his persuasiveness despite the fact that his plan might origionate from a "heart of impenetrable darkness" This appeal and blind adoration of Kurtz to me seems more sinister than fairy-tale like. Also, Kurtz is not encountered or described blatantly, this lack of understanding because of the multiple accounts of Kurtz may be interpreted as deseption. Overall, I agree with everyone that Kurtz is idolized; however, this power is used toward evil purposes.
I agree along with both Kelsey and Rachel in that Marlow's encounter with Kurtz causes Marlow to obsess over Kurtz over what he hears from others. However, Marlow's obsession can also be read as an intermediary between the two extremes of Kurtz and the Company. Kurtz is the chief of the Inner Station and the object of Marlow's quest. Kurtz is a man of many talents, as we learn, among other things, that he is a gifted musician and a fine painter; the chief of which are his charisma and his ability to lead men. "All Europe contributed to the making of Kurtz, and by and by I learned that most appropriately the International Society for the Suppression of Savage Customs had entrusted him with the making of a report for its future guidance." (p.49) Kurtz is a man who understands the power of words, and his writings are marked by an eloquence that obscures their horrifying message. Although he remains an enigma even to Marlow, Kurtz clearly exerts a powerful influence on the people in his life, which explains Marlow's fascination with Kurtz.
Alli says...
I agree with the previous claim that marlow is obsessed with Kurtz, or the idea of Kurtz, however i believe this obsession is caused by curiosity. Many people talk of this man and how amazing he his and they create an image in marlow's head. When he first hears of him he is instantly intrigued, "Mr. Kurtz was"..."a first class agent"..."Sends in as much ivory as all the others put together..." (16) because kurtz is so good at his job he is powerful, and this also makes marlow admire kurtz. These encouters display that men are selfish; "He, don't you see, had been planning to be assistant manager by and by under the present man, and i could see that the coming of that kurtz had upset them both not a little" (23). this man wants to be higher up and he wants Kurtz to be sick so that he can get a better job. In what other parts of the book is this quality displayed?
This blog discussed the relationship between Marlow and Kurtz. The contributors discussed the power that Kurtz has over the canibals and its positive and negative effects of it. They also discussed how Marlow cannot seem to make up his mind on how he feels about Kurtz and whether or not he admires him or is disgusted by him. According to the contributors, Marlow becomes obsessed with Kurtz based on many reasons including competition and unsolved mystery and in a snese curiosity.
question: in what ways do admiration/repulsion for kurtz change into a system of rivalry between him and Marlow?
do the asumptions that Marlow makes about Kurtz provide insight to his own chracter?
do the asumptions that Marlow makes about Kurtz provide insight to his own chracter?
In response to masood's second question, the assumptions that marlow makes about kurtz displays Kurtz's enfatuation with the unknown. This characteristic shapes most of Marlow's life. This can be seen when Marlow is describing Kurtz's writing, "From that point he soared and took me with him. The peroration was magnificent, though difficult to remember, you know. it gave me the notion of an exotic Immensity ruled by an august Benevolence. It made me tingle with enthusiasm" (45-46). Marlow gets very excited about Kurtz's writing of savages and whites because he does not know much on the subject, and he is obsessed with Kurtz, this unknown charcter, and the unknown altogether, (savages).
I agree with Alli that both Kurtz and Marlow are enthralled with the idea of new discovery. However, I think what Masood might have been getting at was how Marlow's assumptions of Kurtz reflect his own personality. What I gathered from the reading was that Marlow's pre-formed opinions of Kurtz indicate an overwhelming skepticism in Marlow's character. Although the popular belief among the islands is that Kurtz is a "supernatural being" or "a deity", Marlow doesn't buy it (45). He, against all evidence, still believes that Kurtz isn't all that he is cracked up to be. In fact Marlow describes him as "lack[ing] restraint in gratification of his various lusts" and "that there [is] something wanting in him-some small matter which, when the pressing need arose, could not be found under his magnificent eloquence" (53). Marlow tries to find flaws in a man he has never met because he thinks it is impossible for a human to be idol like. It pains him to listen to everyone swoon over Kurtz and his superiority to others. That is why he focuses on his "lustful" nature and is facade of "magnificent eloquence". He doesn't believe that a human being could be so perfect and well revered by others, so he attempts to disprove it.
This skepticism on Marlow's part may be seen as rivalry by some, as Masood said. However I think it has less to do with jealousy of Kurtz than it does with disbelief. Marlow doesn't want to be a God to the natives, he just wants to find the peace in knowing that Kurtz is not one either. He attempts to humanize him, because he is a realistic guy. He doesn't believe in the far fetched stories. And although Marlow admits that he "was seduced into something like admiration- like envy" for Kurtz I think he quickly realizes the error of his ways (50). Later on he judges Kurtz harshly and again tries to bring him down to his level. Marlow is looking for the truth and he doesn't think that Kurtz the god of ivory is true.
I like what Rachel was saying about Marlow trying to make others see Kurtz as a human and not a God to idolize. However, because of his attempts to humanize Kurtz, it forms a one-sided rivalry between the two men. When Marlow speaks with the manager about Kurtz he asks, "Don't you talk with Mr. Kurtz?" and the manager replies with, "You don't talk with that man--you listen to him" (49). This represents the undying awe that everyone, except Marlow, has with Kurtz. Marlow's question defines his confusion and aggrivation as to why Kurtz is so highly respected, which is why he subconciously forms a rivalry with this man. Marlow's fascination with Kurtz comes not from admiration of the unknown, but rather, the desire to unveil Kurtz's flaws.
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